mercredi, août 02, 2006

Alternative media?

I received this interesting (?) set of pictures, of course i did not write the text however i thought it could be somehow revealing and would make a good statement.


At 8:17 AM, Blogger uv said...

Although pictures and eyewitness accounts can sometimes be deceiving, this does look like a crime. Care to ammend this list? (I'll help you - it's number 71, between the 13 and 14 Israeli casualties.)

At 10:12 AM, Blogger walid said...

I do not know if your comment comes from a conviction or if it is just the common justification. I have to admit that I did not see the movies about Mohammad Dora or the other one (my internet connection is too slow for that) however it is not the issue. If you believe that Palestinians are busy staging their death for the sake of the media I have to say I admire your devotion. However I would like to comment on the other link you sent (the list of suicide bombers), and how the pictures when compared to the list can be revealing of the crime Israel commits which is not killing this guy but being able to label every guy they kill a suicide bomber without having anyone to check if he really was. In fact this list is revealing in the sense that it shows how easy it is to say we are fighting terrorism, or that we killed 20 terrorists but in fact maybe 19 of them were normal people who did nothing wrong except being male Palestinians between the age of 16 and 35. I am sure – but of course not certain – that many of these young Palestinians on this list were nothing but normal people who fell victim to a political necessity to show the Israeli public that their government is fighting ‘terrorism’ – a terrorism by the way I believe is a direct consequence of Israeli policy and occupation. I will not bother to amend the list as you suggested but I will ask you to reconsider the whole credibility of listing.

As for the ‘between the 13 and 14 Israeli casualties’, I will have to advise you not to go into the comparison of figures because you know very well that the ratio of civilian casualties is way unbalanced, and if it was about numbers things would have been so different. But of course as everyone knows the life of a Palestinian is not worth much; in fact it costs the same as the life of an Iraqi, or recently that of a Lebanese.

At 12:08 PM, Anonymous Gal said...


You comment is just out of place and it shows the stupidity and blindness of the official Israeli response (not of you of course): what is seen in these pictures is a crime (based on the premise that they were not fabricated). Even if he was on his way to commit a horrible crime, or is accused in performing such a crime in the past, a law country should bring him to justice. This is why there are courts of law. The images clearly show he wasn’t endangering his surrounding. Instead of facing to terrible truth Israelis try to figure out ways to prove the photographs/victim/situation is not as seen. This process of denying what is clear to see results in more aggression and more crimes.

The problem begins when Israel empower the army to be the prosecutor, the judge and the executioner (remember there is no execution punishment in Israeli courts, beside for Nazi criminal and this guy is obviously not a Nazi). An eighteen year old soldier should not decide who can live and who must die. Your stand explains why Israel is a terror-state: we don’t need courts anymore. Justice can be carried out by the army. And this is, my friend, terror.


At 7:07 PM, Blogger uv said...

Excellent , I agree with you both. So now that we all agree that it is 'problematic', to say the least, to understand the Other (you know, the one who shot someone else in cold blood at a time of chaos), riddle me this:

Do you really believe that a stance of "I don't recognize my neighbour until it is dismantled/disappears/changes to whatever I think is right, I would make its life as miserable as I can" a pragmatic approach?

In other words, even if you really aren't ready to make peace with Israel (which I can understand), why do you insist on actively joining the palestinian conflict instead of building your own country? (And by the way, this is not just my idea.)

Note that I could also say that Lebanon has no right to exist because of all the reasons you stated yourself a few posts ago, but I won't. Other than the fact that I really don't think so, it's also non of my business. Also, from an historic perspective, I'd like to know if a people have been liberated with the help of an offensive force from another country?

At 2:28 AM, Blogger walid said...

I will attempt to answer your questions without getting too annoyed of having to repeat again and again and again the same thing. First of all about the riddle: In this not-so-beautiful form of existence which is often called reality there is something called power, and this power is neither ideal, nor good. If I want to enlighten you about the causes of struggles and wars in this region you will need to first of all admit and recognize the existence of a population that belongs to the land you are now living on. Second you will need to understand that this same population has kinship relations and blood relations with another one that lives in Lebanon and other places in the Arab world. After understanding and accepting this FACT you will probably be ready to face another reality, that of conflict. When one is in conflict with another, especially when the other (in here I mean Israel) is an occupying force that is a priori making your life miserable and so on, then you respond (that is in reality not in the ideal world) with an attempt to revolt and respond to this aggression by a reciprocal one, as much as you can (being the weaker one). The pragmatic approach in that (it does not mean it is the best theoretical way) – and let me remind you that actually this is how things have been pragmatically working since the beginning of time – is that by doing so you are trying to get a balance of force on whatever degree and you keep doing so until the oppressor (in this case Israel) stops its oppression or occupation. Let me remind you that no power is so kind and moral to be prepared to give up power for the sake of morality, so imagine if the Palestinians were not revolting will Israel really give them their land? Think about it.

This is in the case of Palestinians, as for the case of Lebanon joining actively the Palestinian conflict I have 2 things to say again (unfortunately it is becoming so repetitive that I am beginning to feel like I have a daily job to write this same argument just for you – in a while I will start expecting to get paid for it): first Lebanon’s conflict with Israel is not solely related to the Palestinian conflict as I have so many times repeated and I expect you to either face it or just stop denying it and asking me to explain the same thing all over again (that is the Chebaa farms, the detainees and the mines, the Palestinian refugees which are the main issue will be discussed further on). And we did not really choose to join the Palestinian conflict in fact we will gladly forget about it in active terms if you just take the 700 000 Palestinians who should be back to Palestine before you do so you will have to face the fact that the fate of Lebanon is linked to the fate of these Palestinians and therefore to the Palestinian conflict. As for building our country, I have to remind you that we thought we had finished with that before this destructive assault of the almighty Israeli airforce on all (yes all) the rebuilt and built lebanese infrastructure, not to mention the social disaster and the environmental one (900 000 refugees until now that is ¼ of the country, and more than half of the coast is polluted by the deliberate oil spill: why deliberate? As you know more than half of the Lebanese beautiful coast has been highly polluted by an oil spill that came from the electrical plant in Jyyeh in the south of Beirut when Israeli planes not only bombed the oil reserve which is 10 meters from the coast but also the wall that is made in order to prevent any spill to get to the sea).
As for Chibli Mallat, as much as i admire him as a jurist, I cannot say he really represents a mature or even yet a representative or a realistic politician, in the last polls about presidency he got less than 1%. And by the way I am sure any idea you will have, you can definitely find someone in Lebanon who is advocating it, so don’t use the fact that someone is also saying so as an argument, it is just ridiculous in this case.

As for the right of Lebanon to exist I will have to agree with you, I also do not think Lebanon should exist, however it does not mean this is in any way similar to the case of Israel. Let me explain, Lebanon as I assume should not be a country of its own, I believe that it was the worse division Sykes and Picot could have ever made, in historical terms Lebanon should be part of a greater Syria (not that I believe this is something that should be done now, it is too late for this we have to settle with what is here at this point). However the people of Lebanon belong to their land and have the right to be in it, contrary to what I think about the people of Israel who are occupying the land of Palestinians who are still alive or barely in refugee camps. So the right to exist is paralleled with a wrong existence.
As for you question about liberation with the help of an offensive force from another country: France in WWII could be enough for an answer.


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